Waterhouse VC hosts a discussion with Leon Lanen, CEO and Co-founder of Spinlab. Lanen gives us a demo of the platform showing how Spinlab provides operators with a solution to go to market quickly and with a fully featured casino platform.
TImestamps
00:00 Introduction
01:27 iGaming boom
04:25 Spinlab backstory
12:37 Live platform demo
18:40 Social features
20:14 Bonusing and promotions
21:40 Popular features
24:58 Utilisation of payments
26:31 Operator costs
29:27 Fraud detection
31:23 Audience questions
31:30 Can an operator run multiple brands off one Spinlab account?
32:37 Do you have a solution for affiliates or streamers who want to launch their own brand?
35:15 Migrating an existing player data base onto Spinlab
36:34 Is there a minimum volume or size required to be a Spinlab operator?
39:09 How do you manage the risk of big players?
Transcript
Introduction and Disclaimer
Michael Donohue: I've got two guests with me today. We've got Leon, who is from Amsterdam, the co-founder of Spinlab Studio. Welcome, Leon.
Leon Lanen: Good morning, Michael. Excited to be here.
Michael: Good stuff. And we've got Oscar, who is based in London for Waterhouse VC. He's our investment analyst. Welcome, Oscar.
Oscar: Hey, everyone. Good to be on.
Michael: Today, we're going to go under the hood on Spinlab, which is a white label platform business we backed earlier this year. Spinlab basically lets anyone launch their own online casino without needing to build the tech themselves. They handle the games, the payments, all the back-end tech so that operators can focus on their brand and their players.
The Waterhouse VC fund has an option in Spinlab which gives our fund the right to buy a stake in the business at a later date. So, we've got a vested interest here and hopefully by the end of the presentation, you'll understand why.
We're going to cover what's happening in the platform market and then Leon is going to show us the product live. The webinar will be pretty short today with plenty of time for questions at the end, and you're welcome to start asking them at any point through the presentation. Please just drop them in the chat box that you can probably see in the bottom right hand corner of your screen and we'll get to them throughout.
Quick disclaimer before we begin. This presentation is for wholesale investors only and is general information. It is not personal financial advice.
What's happening in the iGaming platform market?
Michael: Moving on. Oscar, let's set the scene before we bring Leon in. About 18 months ago, we hosted a webinar with one of the co-founders of Shuffle, which is one of the biggest crypto casino operators in the world. That conversation was really about all the growth happening in this sector and the picks and shovels opportunity sitting behind it. The team's view at the time was that we would probably see a long tail of entrepreneurs trying to follow the trailblazers, the likes of Stake, Shuffle, Sportsbet.io, and that they all need a platform to be able to take advantage of that opportunity. We looked at all the incumbent platform providers and felt there were no solutions built for speed to market, and that there were no real solutions out there that didn't require someone to have a lot of technical expertise as well. So Oscar, are we seeing that wave of entrepreneurs materialise today? And what does the demand for the platform infrastructure look like?
Oscar: Yeah, I think the wave has still continued. I think there are a lot of exciting challenger brands which have seen what the likes of those incumbents that you mentioned have done, and there's a growing list of competitors to them. There are also new jurisdictions opening up the whole time, creating new opportunities there. The products that some of these guys have built are pretty hard to fault, and they've set a very high bar. Our view has always been that to succeed in the industry you need to offer something that is differentiated. And for operators, really that means being able to customise features, roll out new ideas, and really, if you're launching a brand, you need that flexibility. In today's world you also need speed as well. So having both of those things together is a pretty rare commodity, which most of the legacy platform providers aren't really able to cater for. So there's a big opportunity there.
Michael: And what's sort of the demographic of some of these new operators getting into the market? Who's actually launching the new brands?
Oscar: There are affiliates, media brands, crypto communities. There are also influencers which have audiences which would rival a lot of operators' customer bases, and in a lot of instances trump them. Massive communities which are looking for new ways to monetise their audiences, and being an operator is one of the ways you can do so.
How did Spinlab come about?
Michael: Yeah, that makes sense. I think it's a good market backdrop. We've got a wave of new operators, incumbent platforms not quite keeping up with the demands of the new entrants in the marketplace, and a gap for someone who can offer a bit more speed to market. Leon, this is where you come in, and I'd love to start with your background. Can you tell us a bit more about what you were working on before Spinlab to start?
Leon: Yeah, sure. So, we started in the crypto market, more on the casual gaming side, around 2021, when that was in full swing. In-game items were suddenly able to be put on chain as well, in the form of NFTs, and we were quite early in that market and built a pretty extensive gaming ecosystem there with a product called Bit Hotel. So that really got our feet wet on the gaming software side. But we struggled a bit with monetisation, so we started to explore more ways to monetise with in-game mini games and different types of currencies, including different crypto. All in all, we more or less settled on some more iGaming related mechanics, like betting mini games. But we still found that the best way to monetise would be just to move more and more towards a full-fledged casino platform, and that's at one point what we opted to do as well. So we set up a separate site just focusing on iGaming, a purebred operator type business, and we ran that for a good year, year and a half, full focus, with a really pleasant white label provider that had a pretty solid product back then. And yeah, we just basically made all the mistakes in the book and learned the hard way how to do that business well and what's missing in terms of differentiation to really stand out.
We did a lot of marketing experiments to really understand the pain points in the market on the B2C side. We really put a lot of time and effort into making that work, and we found all kinds of things that are pitfalls for this model. We wrote them all down. We shared them with everybody in our team and our network to make sure that we weren't making the same mistake twice. And at one point we simply felt like, okay, to really stand out and have product parity with some of these top dogs like Shuffle or Stake, you cannot really rely on third parties, because you're never fully in control of the product. So with a very select team, we decided to build our tech stack slowly from scratch, in a very cost-efficient manner, by including everybody that was building it on the cap table and really trying to bootstrap our way there. And that took us almost a year to get to that point. But we found that with the newest frameworks and a bit of help with AI, we could build something that these legacy providers used to take three, four, five years on. We could build it way faster, more than 10 times faster I would say, to get to a product that's actually very, very close to, let's say, best in market B2C software.
We first decided to get our network on it. Some friends, some operators, some affiliates from our circles. My background is actually also in affiliate marketing. I used to run a company since 2018, 2019 on that front. And a lot of our friends and partners started to test our stack. And that's also what brings us here today, because this model of providing very high level tech in a very easy to use way, where you can also launch much faster than the industry currently allows elsewhere, is what really differentiates us right now. So you can literally connect your domain name and be live the same day with a few clicks. We'll share more about that and how the software looks in a bit, I'm sure, but that's the background story basically.
What differentiates Spinlab from incumbent platforms?
Michael: Yeah. Okay. And you mentioned that the platform that you used when you gave the B2C opportunity a crack was pretty solid. What do you think were the main things missing there? I guess the selling point for Spinlab now. What's the big differentiator? Even though some of these incumbent platforms are still pretty good, why would you go with Spinlab?
Leon: Yeah, good question. I would say you definitely want to have a lot of versatility. If you cannot easily change or tweak a thing here or there, or have enough affiliate link options, there's such a level of depth that you need to tailor to all users and all marketing partners, that relying on a third party, more legacy type platform, it will take two, three months for anything to be changed, because development is quite hard. To have it all under one house, under one roof, and be able to tweak things very quickly here or there with a modular setup allows, I would say, for much faster scaling and iterating on the operator side. So we decided to build the stack modular and allow people to pick and choose the features that they want, to not make the product overly complex. So that really sets us apart now.
Michael: Yeah, makes sense. And we'll get into some of those features very shortly. Can you maybe just give us a quick preview on where you're at today? Like when did you guys launch, and if you can share, how many operators do you have on board?
Leon: Yeah, sure. So we built the product mostly last year from the ground up, and we started to onboard the first clients early this year, just to see if the product would hold and what to tweak, what the feedback was. And initially everything actually was really stable, really solid, and the first operators are still around with us now, five months later. So overall we're very happy with the progress we've made on that front and the level of customer satisfaction, because the worst thing would be to provide something that doesn't really have product market fit, but it does seem we sort of hit the nail on the head on that front. And now more recently, in the last few months, we made launching instant. We made the onboarding flows much shorter, we seed configs. So that means that on the bonuses side, there are some best practices, like a 1x rollover on every deposit to prevent money laundering, and there's a list of 10 things like that that we just seed for the customers, meaning they don't have to set it up manually. It's just in the system right away when they set up. So that made our clients go live much faster as well after they onboard. They just need to upload a logo, tweak a few things here or there to their liking, and they can go live, similar to maybe a Shopify store. And in terms of our client profile, we currently have around 40 clients live on the Spinlab tech stack. So we have a lot of data as well on what's working and what's to be improved. And we're starting to get pretty large distribution in terms of amount of deposits per day, just total volume on the whole network, which also opens up more interesting opportunities.
Michael: Leon, with that customer profile, is there generally a lot of handholding with the operators?
Leon: Pre-launch, I would say so, yes, but post-launch, and currently people are launching around 7 to 10 days after they open their site, just to configure their branding and everything and learn the system. But I would say there's a bit of handholding at the start, because every new software is relatively difficult to get your head around. But after, let's say, a week, it's off to the races. They fly out from the nest, let's say.
How does an operator go live on Spinlab? (Live demo)
Michael: Okay. Well, maybe if you can share your screen, Leon, and show us the product and walk us through some of these key features you've been telling us about.
Leon: Sure. Let me open it up.
Michael: Well, maybe it would be good to do it from the perspective of a new client. So, how would an operator or new individual brand go live on Spinlab?
Leon: Yeah, good question. So before you get to have a nice front end like this, there are a few steps that a new client would take. First of all, we currently are invite only. So we do want to make sure that who we work with is a good fit. But our barrier to enter the market is quite low compared to SoftSwiss or many large white label providers, because our tech is very lean and we have lower budget requirements. But we do need to make sure you have the liquidity to pay your players. So there's a bit of a balance there. But long story short, you get on a call with us. If everything looks good, we send you a link. This is an onboarding link. It's really simple. It's just like a signup flow on shopify.com. You fill in your name, email, casino name, you pick which subscription plan you want, and after that you set a password, and then you click connect on the domain connect button. This automatically sets all the DNS records, technical things, correctly for you so that the casino software runs on your domain. You still retain ownership of your domain name, but it's automatically filling in the technical side for you. And once that's done, it takes around 30 to 40 seconds to populate the DNS. Then you'll be met with a back office, which, if you're looking at my screen, looks something like this, where you can customise all the colours around your site. So let's say you want your primary colour more green or something. You can just click save changes. And if we then go back to the front end that's connected to the back office, you see now everything around the site is green. So that's very easy to update. And then there are a bunch more options that we allow you to customise out of the box. It goes quite deep, so we won't have time for it all today, but that's really as simple as it gets in terms of onboarding. I don't think there's anybody else currently in the space that allows you to onboard this fast.
Oscar: Yeah, maybe more of the product. I guess in terms of choosing what features you have on the site, there's so much choice out there in terms of game providers, sportsbooks. What do you actually give to the brand in terms of that choice? How do you actually implement the games that you want, the design layout, all of that?
Leon: Yeah, excellent question. So straight out of the box you get the 150 most popular providers. Hacksaw, Pragmatic, No Limit City, etc. And you can easily slot these games in by creating a few categories first for your homepage. So let's say you want to put originals at the top. You can very easily just drag originals to the top and then add a bunch of games under each category by going to the promote games tab, and you can just click add game, select the game that you want to add, and we'll slot it in right away. You can see the providers. You can also see here on the game settings there are like 30,000 games in the catalogue just on the casino side. And then on the sports betting side, there are a number of sportsbooks that we can enable for you, also basically instantly. So we send you a couple of demo links and then you pick the best one that you like, and then it will be enabled on your template. So it's just a single click away to have it on your platform. And there's also prediction market software these days included in some of the sportsbooks, as well as available as a separate product offering inside of the Spinlab stack. So if you want to put that front and centre, because it's pretty much quite popular right now, then you can put that most prominently on your site as well.
Oscar: Got it. That's pretty cool.
Michael: Sorry, Oscar. I was just going to ask about the prediction markets. Where is that sort of coming from? Is that being pooled with other liquidity?
Leon: Yeah, it's being pooled with other liquidity. So the one you're looking at right now is actually a very popular sportsbook that's on major sites. BC.Game has a sportsbook, I think Rainbet has a sportsbook, and then a couple of thousand other sites as well, I believe. So they pool the liquidity on these markets to make them efficient, to not allow too much arbitrage, and actually give a good prediction of the truth. So I would say it's pretty deep liquidity on this particular one.
What social features and tournaments does Spinlab offer?
Oscar: Great. Leon, going back to the casino, one of the things I've noticed in conversations with operators and suppliers is the enjoyment of this competitive element to wagering. Do you offer any sort of tournaments or ways that you can compete with friends, social features?
Leon: Yeah, it's definitely one of the higher requested features. So we have it natively supported. Basically, if you go to your back office and you go to leaderboards, you can make different types of competitions, not only for all your users, like a global race, for example, a weekly global race with a certain prize pool. You can also connect them to specific affiliates. So let's say one major streamer is going live on your site and he wants his own tournament to rack up large wagers from his viewers. That's a very popular way to grow. So we also allow that. You can literally just select a specific affiliate campaign link, so that if people use that link to sign up, they will be automatically entered into the leaderboard, into the tournament. So these types of things are very easy to do with the Spinlab Studio software. And we also provide a public API endpoint to fetch your tournament rankings and host them on your own site. Many streamers have their own sites specifically for this purpose, and we are aware of that because we were an operator in the past. So that's also possible. You can just fetch the live stats of all your users on your code that are competing in this leaderboard and host them on your own platform. So it's very easy to use.
How does bonusing work on the platform?
Michael: What about bonusing, Leon? How can you sort of set up bonus bets and deposit matches and all that sort of stuff?
Leon: Yeah. We provide, I would say, a really sophisticated bonus engine. It's also much more easy to use in general than the average competitor. So first of all, we provide you with a seeded config, meaning there are a few standard types of bonuses that users come to expect, and we just put them in your back office before you have to do anything. So as soon as you activate your account, there will be a deposit rollover of 1x. This prevents abuse and money laundering. And a welcome bonus, currently set at a 35 times rollover. You can edit these details very easily. Plus you can make new types of bonuses, where all the options that you would ever want are included. So this includes fixed amounts, free spins, even bonuses connected to maybe an affiliate link again. So if you come from a streamer, you get a unique bonus that you only get when you use that streamer's code to sign up. And then all the risk profile type options are also included. Gain caps, maximum bet amounts, and so forth. So there's quite a lot of things to explore on that front.
Which features do operators love most?
Oscar: What are some of the more popular features that you find operators really love?
Leon: Good question. I think there are a couple more that we haven't really gone over that are must haves these days, and operators really like to play with these things. So, for example, the rank settings, basically your loyalty system. It's a must have these days, but not all white label providers have these things out of the box. So what you can play with to really stand out here is, for example, to set very unique types of rakeback structures. And these rakeback structures you can maybe give away to all users. For example, we have some clients that set instant rakeback, meaning on every bet you get a bit back, for all users, just as a marketing stunt for the first month or two, because normally you would have to be Platinum 3 or something on Stake to get these types of experiences where you get something back every bet. So it's always sought after. For many users it's unattainable, but because it's very easy to set up these things in a safe way, and that's the most important part, inside of Spinlab, it allows you to make these kinds of differentiation strategies inside of the casino.
So let's say here we have a level, if you look at my screen, where you can set a monthly rakeback, a monthly bonus, and you can select a certain template on how you want to allocate that bonus to the users on that level. So there are a bunch of options. It's a bit complex to really dive into the nitty-gritty here. But let's say you select a particular template. You can then go up and you can actually simulate the benefits that a user would be getting. Right? So you don't want to break your economic model. Trust me, we know this, because we once screwed this up ourselves in the past. If you break your economic model without properly running simulations on your loyalty settings, and this is already very advanced, so most software first of all don't have this, and second of all, most operators don't even know you have to do this. What would happen is users would make many accounts and then they would farm wagers until they get to a level where your model breaks, and then they would just take advantage of you for as long as they can and basically do this at scale. It's going to lose you a lot of money, and sometimes it's very hard to see this. But we built tooling to simulate this, and you'll very easily get a warning that says, hey guys, you screwed something up here, you put an extra zero on this particular parameter, and that makes you lose money on your loyalty tiers. So even though it's a must have feature, it's also a big pitfall if you don't set it up properly. We help you with that.
How do payments work for a Spinlab operator?
Michael: I remember a long time ago speaking to an operator. They had a huge amount of issues just finding someone to be a payments provider, and it really delayed the launch of their project at the time. How does a Spinlab customer get set up with payments?
Leon: Yeah, good question. So instantly you have access to crypto payments. These are very solid. There are 200 different cryptocurrencies that we support out of the box, and you can toggle them on or off very easily. It's a bankroll system that's native to Spinlab, and you are the owner of that account. So Spinlab admins cannot enter your bankroll account. It's really your platform. And then next to crypto payments, there are also a bunch of fiat methods, through an on-ramp, that you can natively turn on, and this allows you to almost globally accept credit card, Google Pay, Apple Pay, and other more popular local payment methods in certain markets. So this covers your bases on most of your key markets. That all comes straight out of the box. The crypto is natively live as soon as you onboard, so the same day basically that you connect your domain name. And the fiat methods take a few days to apply for, but nonetheless it's very fast, and you can always launch quicker. If you want to launch in three days, that's not possible anywhere else, but you can do that with us easily, especially if you're fine with just crypto to start.
What does it cost to run a brand on Spinlab?
Oscar: Leon, in terms of the actual costs involved for an operator, can you just give that a breakdown for us?
Leon: Yeah, good question. So we don't really take a massive chunk of your revenues. That's also different from other white label providers. Many providers ask for a percentage of your deposits or a percentage of your GGR, and then oftentimes they ask for a very large setup fee to even get you going. Currently we have three different pricing plans and it's very simple. It's similar to how Shopify has a few pricing plans. They're all monthly subscriptions. So as soon as you onboard, you pay the first month up front, and then 30 days after that you get your next payment request. But you can easily upgrade and downgrade between plans. Certain plans have more features than others, and the price ranges between approximately $1,000 per month to $3,000 per month. And we're still tweaking the pricing here or there, but don't worry, if you onboard with Spinlab, you keep the same price forever, no matter how many times we change the pricing after you onboard. So it's very easy to grasp. And there are of course discounts if you pay multiple months or a year up front. That's only logical. But it's very easy to understand, and we sort of break the standard industry model of pricing, which is maybe 50k up front, and then you wait six weeks, and then they will still get you on the GGR fees, taking five to 10 per cent of your GGR as you go. It's very hard to get profitable if you're down that much already at the start. It makes it much harder, or I would say the market segment that you're able to service if you have that model is very small. So everybody's sort of picking on the same customers, maybe some venture funded guys, maybe some guys with very deep pockets, while we can work with a much broader market, with slightly smaller budgets, but that maybe have the marketing expertise to make the model work, but simply are more nimble and don't have a massive war chest to deploy.
Oscar: Yeah, actually giving the operator a chance as well. If it doesn't work out, I guess they're not tied down to that 50k lump sum payment. So you're giving the operator a good opportunity.
Leon: Exactly. Yeah.
How does Spinlab handle fraud detection and bonus abuse?
Michael: I've only got one more question. Oscar, do you have any more?
Oscar: All good.
Michael: I can just see the tab on the left hand side there, Leon, fraud detection. Is there anything the operators need to be wary of in terms of bonus abusers and fraud and those sorts of people?
Leon: Yes, absolutely. I think the list of things you have to be wary of as an operator is too long to even go through on a single call. There are so many different ways that people can abuse your casino. But we by now know all of them, and we learned from Stake and their rules around bonus abuse. We basically deploy a seed set of rules for every operator to prevent these types of abuses from happening. So there's a bunch of fraud detection rules that help you stay on top of your user base. If a user makes more than, let's say, one account, that's already a bit of a weird sign. So we have a very easy rule that does multi-account detection. But then there are also other ways that users can take the opposite side of the same bet to farm wagers, if you have free bonus money that has a rollover on it. You don't want people to abuse that system, and there are rules for that as well. So honestly, you really need a partner in this business that knows what players are trying these days, to be able to stay ahead of the curve and really optimise your margins. Because if you're not careful, you're going to have very deteriorated margins by not catching these things early. So we help with that. You get notifications as soon as somebody tries something out of the ordinary, so that you can keep your platform in the green. That's the fraud detection in a nutshell.
Michael: Having used other platforms firsthand in the past, it almost makes me laugh a little bit how simple it looks here to use versus some of the other things I've seen out there. So yeah, it's a great demo, and thank you. We're going to open up to questions now.
Can an operator run multiple brands off one Spinlab account?
Michael: I've got the first one come through from Ed, who has asked, can an operator run multiple brands off one Spinlab account?
Leon: Good question. Yes. So you can literally toggle through your casinos with a single click. If you're still looking at my screen, there's a toggle at the top left corner. And if you include your email as a back office role inside multiple of your casinos, it's very easy to just switch through the different tabs, and it will give you instant access to your back office for that other brand. So yes, you would have to have two subscriptions, logically speaking, but from there on out, you can just add the same email to all your back offices and toggle through your whole portfolio of brands in a single click, which is also, I would say, quite unique in the market. And everything is standardised, so you know what you're expecting. There are no weird custom changes on each back office. It's all really easy to navigate.
Do you have a solution for affiliates or streamers who want to launch their own brand?
Michael: I might just turn to a couple of questions we got that were submitted prior to the webinar. We've got a question from Graeme, who has asked, do you have a solution for affiliates or streamers who want to launch their own brand?
Leon: Yeah, of course. A lot, is the short answer. We actually already have clients with this profile, guys with large communities or a large following. And there are some major unique features that allow these types of guys with a vast streaming network to operate at the highest possible level. So first of all, we have tournaments and competitions that are connectable to affiliate links, natively out of the box, and an open API to fetch your leaderboard rankings to display anywhere you like, including on your stream. The second thing is that you can pay out affiliate partners in a number of ways. So we don't just do rev share, we don't just do bet share, but you can also pay people on a CPM model, and there are three other affiliate models that you can make affiliate campaigns for. So for any type of marketing partner, there's something that fits their needs. Blogs might want to be paid on a CPM model, so if you want to have many SEO sites indexing you, that's a different type of payment model that they often expect than maybe a streamer would, which is often a hybrid model, maybe some CPA based on the first time depositors, plus a rev share on top. This hybrid is also one of the options you can natively select in the software. So I would say on the marketing side, when it comes to growing a casino for streamers, there aren't really, from what I've seen, many other companies honing in on this as deeply as we are. And there are some really big names that are going live on some of our client sites that are very fond of the system currently. And there are more coming as well. There's one name that I cannot name, but he's one of the larger creators on the planet, and he wanted to have a sub-affiliate system, where even if you refer a user who refers a user, you still take a very small percentage two levels down. So that's also coming. We're always cooking up something new.
Can you migrate an existing player database onto Spinlab?
Michael: Another question we had submitted, from Sean, was just a question around migrating an existing player database onto Spinlab. Is that something you can do? I guess that's maybe relevant for affiliates, but also operators who maybe already have a different platform and want to come across.
Leon: Yeah, of course, that's easily possible. If you extract your player data, any data points you have, we can use to get your Spinlab native site populated with the same player profiles. Just note that normally extracting data from another provider doesn't give you the passwords, which would of course be a risk, so players would still have to set a new password. Anything like balance or loyalty rank you can easily transfer over, and you can just mimic the loyalty ranks that you maybe had on your other site, if you're closing that down, and put it into the tech stack here. And we have a very nice team to help you with this. So we don't just leave it up to you. We'll help you make this work, because we know that it benefits both if we get you live quicker.
Is there a minimum volume or size required to be a Spinlab operator?
Michael: Another question from Ed. Is there a minimum volume or size to be a Spinlab operator?
Leon: No, currently we're really open to working with anybody, as long as you have a clear story and a bit of budget to actually make this model work. This is not a beginner type of business. So if you've never had a business before, and you don't really have any money to pour into growth, then I think it will be a hard way to make this model profitable. But if you sort of know what you're doing and you have a bit of bankroll and some marketing budget, we can very easily work with you, even though you may not have volume anywhere else right now. If you have a clear plan and story, we're open to betting on you as well.
Does the operator sign contracts with Spinlab or with PSPs?
Michael: A question from Thomas on fiat. You mentioned a few days. I think it's asking, does the operator sign contracts with Spinlab or with PSPs? I'm guessing that means, are you doing your contracts with some of the things that you plug into your system? Are you doing the contracts directly with Spinlab or with the other companies?
Leon: Yeah, good question. Now, this might change over time as we get more robust on the compliance side, but currently you just have a contract with Spinlab, and Spinlab in turn has a contract with all the PSPs, including also different crypto solutions, to make your platform, first of all, go live quicker, because if you need to KYB with 10 different parties, it's going to take weeks, and it's not needed under the white label model. So long story short, we do all that on your behalf, and with many of them we have very clear user agreements where we can get your API keys instantly. So for crypto rails, you basically have it the first minute that you get your back office. That also makes the model much faster. It's the only way to get this Shopify-like experience, if you don't have to make all these separate contracts. You just have them with one party, and that would be Spinlab.
How do you manage the risk of big players?
Michael: The last question from me. I'm just thinking in the shoes of a startup operator managing risk. If you've got some players who want to play big on your site when you're still starting out, how does one manage the risk of taking on those players and potentially them winning a lot of money?
Leon: Yeah, good question. So there are a few levers you can pull to manage your risk as an operator. On the bonuses side, you can set gain caps and also maximum bets. On the global, platform-wide side, there are many limits that we allow you to configure, including maximum bet limits, and daily and weekly wagering limits, which are more responsible gambling limits. But to really cap your downside, we always match your maximum bet based on the amount of liquidity that you have available. So if you want to take larger bets, you need to have more liquidity in your platform. It's the only logical way to operate this business. And after that, there are also bankroll services these days. This is a development that we all know about, but maybe some others don't. And this also allows for some interesting options, where you can basically take away the bankroll risk and just really focus more on marketing. So we're working on developments to make that available as well, but for now the bankroll side is currently still on the operator side. So there are those types of ways that you can manage yourself from not blowing up in the first week. And we make sure that you're not screwing up any of these things at the start, because we want to have everybody around for as long as possible, right? We have a vested interest in making everybody that uses our tech successful, and growing them into a large enterprise.
Michael: Absolutely. Well, that feels like a good place to end things. Thanks everyone for joining us today. I really appreciate your time, and you, Leon, for joining us today and giving us a demonstration. If anyone wants to follow up with Waterhouse VC or Spinlab, all the contact details are on screen at the moment, so feel free to reach out to myself, Oscar or Leon directly. Thanks again everyone, and we'll see you on the next webinar.