Waterhouse VC hosts a discussion with Brandt Page, CEO and founder of Bitblox Games. Brandt explains how Bitblox is innovating in the gambling industry with unique, fast-paced crypto-based games. Learn about their flagship game 'Up or Down Turbo,' the huge market they are targeting, and their expansion plans.
This webinar was recorded on 3 September 2025.
Watch the full webinar here:
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
01:45 What is Bitblox?
03:05 Gameplay demo
04:46 Inspiration for the product
07:02 Business model
10:10 How do you protect against gaming the system?
15:33 Market context
19:10 Traction so far
21:35 Unit economics
23:10 Expansion plans
27:01 Geographic expansion
34:16 How quick are new integrations?
35:02 Convergence of betting and finance
36:00 Fundraising Information
Transript
Michael Donohue: Welcome everyone joining us today on the webinar. My name is Michael Donohue, head of distribution at Waterhouse VC. We're an investor in the suppliers to the global gambling industry. So we're a fund that focuses on tech and service businesses that power the gambling companies behind the scenes, rather than those more consumer-facing brands that take the bets from the punters. For those on the webinar who aren't familiar with our fund, we're not going to talk about the fund specifically too much today, but you can view the previous webinars on the fund and our performance on our YouTube channel and find out more information on our website. Today though, we're actually going to do something a little bit different, which is go deep on one single portfolio company that we have in the fund and learn about their product, the opportunity they're pursuing, their team, and how they plan to grow. And with me today to do that is Brandt Page, who is the CEO and founder of Bitblox Games. Welcome, Brandt.
Brandt Page: Thanks, Michael. Lovely to be here.
Michael: Really good to have you. A quick bit of housekeeping before we begin. Today's webinar is intended for wholesale investors only. Everything discussed today is general information and should not be taken as investment advice. If anyone listening in live today would like to ask a question, please just click that box in the bottom right hand corner of your screen that says questions, and type your question in there. Only your first name will be shown. You can upvote other people's questions to bump them to the top of the queue. I will try and sprinkle them in during Brandt's presentation today, and if we don't get to it during the presentation, we'll get to it at the end. And the last thing I should mention is that today's webinar will be recorded, so you'll have an opportunity to catch up on it again, or if you have to drop off early, you'll get a link to the recording at some point.
What is Bitblox?
Michael: Brandt, let's start at the basics. Can you tell us a bit about Bitblox and the product, and what the game actually is?
Brandt: Yes. I would describe Bitblox as, effectively, we build entertainment around the live price of Bitcoin. That would be my one sentence summary. We are doing things that really no other suppliers in the industry are actually doing. So fundamentally, we're looking here at Up or Down Turbo, our flagship game. It is literally as simple as, is Bitcoin going higher or lower in the next 20 seconds? So we're looking at a 20 second game where you're betting, then you see if you win or not in the next 20 seconds, and then the next game starts after that. A 20 second cadence of being on and off, in the sense of betting, seeing whether you won or not, and then placing your next bet. But it is literally as simple as that.
Michael: And do people need to know how crypto works and be interested in Bitcoin to play?
Brandt: I think everyone has some idea about Bitcoin. Obviously, it's had a lot of publicity. It's very volatile, but you don't need any detailed knowledge of Bitcoin or cryptocurrency per se. Players actually play our games with whatever currency the operator lets them use, whether that be fiat or crypto basically. So it's like engaging with crypto without having to touch it, I would say.
How do the games actually play? (Live demo)
Michael: Sure. So your team provided a little snippet of gameplay for us to share. Maybe you could just commentate over the top of how it actually works.
Brandt: Yes. So these are our two live games currently. Up or Down Turbo, a 20 second prediction. Here we've got the odds there, 1.89 and 1.87, that change dynamically with our feed. I've just had a $10 bet on it going up. I know this moves quite quickly. So now I'm into the game screen. I'm looking for it to be in the green section, because I've gone up. The price started at 110,236 and we just want it to be above that, and my $10 bet will return me $19.74 in this round. Yes, I won. So I've been paid the $19.74 instantly, basically, on my operator side. So that just gives a flavour of how simple that one is. Now, Three in a Row. We've turned the 20 second prediction almost into an accumulator type bet, where you've got to pick three of them correctly. You've got eight combinations, and you can combine up to three of these in a single bet in this game. So you can pick them yourself or you can pick them at random. And in this case, I've just got in. I've had a $50 bet on three combinations. We're in the first 20 seconds here. Now, I've got both options covered, because you can see on the right hand side there, I've got up and down covered in the first one. Down's come in on the first 20 seconds. So now we're looking at the second window, and I've got both of those options covered as well. So no matter what happens, I'm alive. Now we're into the last one, and I need it to go up if I'm going to win. And thankfully, in this case, it has gone up. So I've won my $91 on that bet. So again, a simple sort of accumulator style thing, still very fast-paced.
Michael: Yeah, it definitely felt quite fast-paced, and I really like that chart on the accumulator game. It keeps you engaged through the game, which is cool.
Where did the idea come from?
Michael: What was the inspiration for these games? Where did the idea come from originally?
Brandt: Look, I think a lot of successful newer games in the global space have actually emerged from, there's a saying we use in the crypto markets, crypto degens, that very hardcore crypto community. There have been a lot of really good ideas come from that. And so a business we're involved in was doing something similar to this, which we've effectively polished and taken out to the wider markets from where it sat. Even the crash gaming concept really started in the crypto universe, not in the bigger gambling market. So that's where it is. There are some other attachments to our foundations as financial markets people, but fundamentally, it's a fun, fast-paced crypto-based game that effectively everyone can engage with. That's the inspiration.
Michael: Yeah. Okay. And just for my understanding as well, and probably the audience's, your business is a tech business, right? So Bitblox, you and your team build the games and you distribute them through other online casinos. So the casinos are the ones standing the bets. You're just providing the tech that makes a really good user experience, and also making sure that the games work for the casinos, but you're not a consumer-facing brand necessarily.
Brandt: No, we're not. That's right. It's one of the advantages of our games, in that we're a little bit like a sports betting mechanic that lives in the casino section of an operator. But actually, that's one of our biggest strengths, because what we have seen since we've been live is that we have a very strong pull for bettors that don't usually come to the casino. So people that tend to just stick to sports betting are actually attracted to our games, and that is a big opportunity for operators in cross-selling into other things. So I think it's an important aspect to think about.
How does the business model work for operators?
Michael: Yeah, sure. And I know that slots are generally one of the more popular games within the online casino space. I think the lion's share, at least as I understand it, goes into slots turnover when you're thinking about all the money that flows through the online casinos. And that's obviously pretty good for the operators, right? Because it's a mathematical certainty over a large enough sample size. If they get some sort of turnover through those games, they know what they're going to win. How do the operators think about it when they're plugging in your game and people are playing it?
Brandt: I think they think probably in two ways. So, for anyone that's not really into these markets, everyone knows slots, particularly if you're from an Australian background, you've seen them in RSLs and other places like that. Slot games run off mathematical models based on what we call an RNG, or a random number generator. So effectively, a player, unless they hit an enormous jackpot, which is very unlikely, a player cannot actually win by playing a slot game over the long term. It's mathematically impossible. That's why it's very attractive for operators, because it does give them a guaranteed revenue stream over time, setting aside the jackpot side of things, and also operators do have to spend a lot of money on bonuses and other things to attract players there.
We are not RNG. So that's where we are very different, and that's why I talked about the sports betting mechanic before. We're effectively providing a live odds feed for operators, where, as you said before, the operator is standing the bets. And so from a player perspective, they are looking at it like, actually, maybe I can win with this thing, because it's a live price, I can see these odds. It's not that dissimilar to if I'm betting on a football match or something like that. So I think that's a big attraction for players in particular, and as I said before, we do have this sweet spot of being able to appeal to both casino players and sports players. And look, we've actually seen that with some of our core partners, where, because we've created almost this new vertical, placement can sometimes be difficult. So we actually sometimes get operators just putting our games on the front page, because that's the place for them, rather than putting them somewhere in the sports area or somewhere in the casino area. But look, as you said before, slots still dominate, but the industry is very keen to develop different types of games, and I think that's also one of the reasons why we've seen such quick traction.
Michael: Yeah. Okay. So there's not a mathematically set in stone return to the casinos. It's more like you've built in margin on each side of the market, and they have maybe an expectation about roughly what they might earn. Is that right?
Brandt: Yeah. Look, we call it an overround in the betting markets, which is how any sort of bookmaker frames a sports bet or a horse racing bet. So our overround, if everything was bet to expectations, would deliver operators in the region of 7 to 15 or 16 per cent, depending on the game. So that's what we're aiming for there. But we are also about to introduce a new deal where, if operators don't want to stand the bets, we have a risk management partner that will basically offer that function, where we guarantee a lower GGR number, but the operator doesn't then have to worry about looking after bets from their side as well. So we're trying to cater for both sets of operators, particularly those that run casino-only businesses and might not be as familiar with how you manage a sports betting concept.
How do you protect against people gaming the system?
Michael: That makes sense. This game sort of straddles financial markets, because you've got the Bitcoin price, and it also straddles betting. And those are two areas where people flock to make money and game the system and try to figure out ways to win. So how would someone theoretically try and beat this game? And what are you doing to protect against that for the operators?
Brandt: That's a good question. I think, like most suppliers, we are all about fair play. We want people to come and enjoy and play our content as much as they want. But the reality is there is always a small portion of people out there that will look to exploit or cheat in any number of ways. It happens across everything, from slot bonus structures to bonuses on deposits and things like that. The reality is, it is very difficult to manipulate the Bitcoin price, because as people know, it moves around an awful lot, particularly even in 20 second windows. So the reality of trying to effectively influence a 20 second window, a lot of variables have to be in the right order for that to potentially be effective. It is technically possible that someone, if they were willing to risk enough Bitcoin on, say, an exchange like Binance, that it might be possible. But on the flip side of that, we actually have a very robust and automated system for detecting if we see anything like that. And we've been live for just on a year now, and we've seen it on probably two or three occasions where there has been an attempt to do that. And what we do in those cases is we detect that very early and we work with the operator to rectify it. So if it means that we need to void a round, because we have suspicion that something has happened with the Bitcoin price that shouldn't have, then we can do that. So we have mechanisms to protect on that side of things. But yeah, like anything, people are always looking for ways around games or other things.
Michael: Sure. I guess operators can set their own natural restrictions as well, if they have a betting limit on that game, because then someone has to weigh up what they can theoretically win off one round versus how much they have to risk in the Bitcoin market to move the price. And Bitcoin's obviously quite a large market now.
Brandt: Yeah. For operators that are also running sportsbooks, it's more something they're familiar with. For operators that don't, and they're just casino, it's less so. And that's partly why we've been working very hard to get in place a commercial structure where we could have a deal for operators where they don't have to worry about standing bets, and they still receive similar returns to what they get on an RNG game as well.
Michael: Yeah. Okay. And probably a related question has just come through. How do you handle extreme price movements, when the price moves up or down continuously for some time? So maybe not necessarily gaming, just natural volatility in the Bitcoin market. Is there anything to worry about there for operators?
Brandt: There's not anything to worry about specifically. What this probably goes to is, the Bitcoin price that we use as our starting and closing price, that you saw on that demo, is actually an on-chain oracle. It comes from a project called the Pyth Network, for anyone that wants to look into it. You can actually provably go and see on-chain the price that we've used for the open and close, and correctly confirm that they're the correct prices. And one of the benefits of that is they take information from, I think, more than 30 publishers. So it's not one exchange or one trading house or otherwise. There's a bunch of different publishers that make up that information. So the Pyth oracle will never be the same price as Binance or any of the other exchanges. It should be close, but it won't necessarily be exact. But part of the fact that Bitcoin is so volatile, I think, is the attraction. The biggest movement I've ever seen in a 20 second game was of the order of $300, because we were actually at a conference promoting it, and we were doing a free demo where people were basically picking up or down in a 20 second window, and whoever got the biggest movement in that window won. And I remember this person got the $300 movement, and so nobody for the rest of the day had a chance, because it was such a huge movement. But that's where it also goes to our pricing model, which is a machine learning model that we've been running for more than five years. So that's where it does cater for those sorts of big movements in Bitcoin, and we see Bitcoin moving around a lot.
Michael: Sure. So just to dive in there, and I don't want to get too far into the weeds, but you're saying if there's significant momentum, for the price, say, going down, that means for the next move the odds have shortened on down? You might see significant movement in one direction over a prolonged period of time.
Brandt: Even when Bitcoin is moving up or down, it doesn't move in a linear fashion. It doesn't just always go up when we're looking at 20 second windows. But you might be looking at our prices and you might see, hang on, this round, if it's going down, it might say down's only 1.4 and up is 2.7. And so for those people, it depends. If you're attracted to the favourite, maybe you still bet the favourite because it's all going down. But other people might go, hang on, 2.7 is pretty good odds here, even though it's been going down. So it's not a coin flip per se, in the sense of true odds. And I think that fact, the live odds, is quite an attractive thing, because it's never the same odds that you're betting on in any contest. You're always seeing those odds and they're always moving around, but you get the odds that you lock in at the time. That's the simple fact.
What's the market opportunity, and how does Bitblox break in?
Michael: Yeah, that makes sense. That's the product. So let's move on to, I guess, the wider market context. I was looking at some numbers from a data provider called Tanzanite, and that's someone who looks at and tracks the deposits of the major crypto casinos, which I guess is your main target audience. And it looks like there was US$25 billion deposited in the last 12 months with the top 10 crypto casinos. So that's just one snapshot of the market, and it's obviously massive. How does Bitblox break in? What's the market gap that you're trying to solve for, and how do you take a bit of that share?
Brandt: Look, I could sit here and talk about any sorts of numbers about our total addressable market and all that sort of stuff. The simple fact is, if we're looking at our space, even if you just put us into the casino games area across the market, and that's across grey to regulated markets, it's at least a minimum of 10 to 15 billion dollars a year in terms of what the pool size is here. And you can see why operators are clamouring for new content, because it's just reskinned slots being put out all the time. There are probably 50,000 or more slot games out there. We talk about a cultural moment on the screen here. We are seeing the younger generation. They understand crypto, and they're very au fait even with Web3 stuff and how that works, and they're looking for very short-term solutions, and they're not necessarily as attracted to slots as what probably my generation might have been, because once upon a time, slots only existed effectively as a land-based thing, and the reason why they're so popular online is just because they were so popular in a land-based environment. And I think that's the sort of thing that we are addressing. It is fresh, it's something very different. And yes, look, from a model perspective here, operators are not having to give away huge percentages in bonuses to attract people to our games, which is, I think, a very strong endorsement on attraction and conversion.
Michael: And is the fact that it's not entirely random, you think, a bit of a selling point as well? I feel like there are some people who wouldn't ever play slots because of that random aspect, and they might actually play with sports betting, and I can see how those sorts of people would find appeal in this game.
Brandt: I think that just goes to why we are seeing people that sometimes only bet on sports and don't play casino games. That's why we're seeing them attracted to our games, because they're going, oh, this is a bit like sports betting, and I can win. And you want people to feel and think like that when they're playing. You want them to be able to go on some streaks and get that sort of feeling. That is the case. It is not an RNG. It is a genuine combination of skill and chance.
Michael: Let's say you crack the market. What's stopping someone from copying what Bitblox is doing? What's your competitive advantage?
Brandt: I'd always be flattered, and we've even seen some aspects of the industry, and some free to play and other things, popping up around Bitcoin prediction as people have seen us. Obviously, one of our strengths is clearly the pricing model. It's very important. If you had someone that just popped up a 1.9, 1.9 price on every game, I don't think you'd see them around too long. So I think that aspect is quite important. But then on the flip side, what we talked about before with manipulation and otherwise, if you don't understand what needs to happen there, you could get yourself in trouble quite quickly.
What traction has Bitblox achieved so far?
Michael: You've been around for about 12 months now, or at least live for 12 months. Can you tell us a bit about the traction you've got today? Who are some of the clients, and how is it actually going operationally?
Brandt: Yeah, I think this is the most powerful thing, because I think we are a very small team, and on a limited budget to date, we've done quite an unbelievable job of getting to where we are, getting live, and getting onto quite a number of operators already with our games and our content. And I think that's a testament to how strong we are technically, both on the integration side, and how strong we are in relationships and the product in general. I don't want to talk and jinx myself here, but we've been running now for just over 12 months, and I think we've probably only had two instances where we've had an issue with either the game going down or something happening that we've had to correct, which is pretty good for a new supplier. It's probably pretty good even for an established supplier. We've got the two live games that you saw at the moment. We have a multitude of languages and currencies that are supported. We're live on more than 50 operators at the moment. Probably our biggest supporters to date have been the aggregator Hub88 and some of their bigger operators, like Sportsbet.io, whale.io and Bitcasino. We've had some really good traction on that side of things. And look, with some of these stats here, we're looking at session durations of six minutes plus. Those sorts of numbers are sometimes the length that someone stays on an entire gambling website, not just playing one game. So if someone's on for six minutes playing Up or Down Turbo, they're playing at least 10 games in a row. As I said before, we have delivered around 7 per cent average GGR on the Up or Down Turbo game to date, and there are 40-plus bets per player on average. Another thing we get is when someone actually lands on the game, it's between a 40 and 50 per cent conversion rate to actually playing it for real money, which is also pretty high. And then just on top level stuff, I think we're approaching 20,000 unique players now, we're well over 500,000 individual bets, and we're also well through $5 million wagered now as well. So the point of view is, we have proven market fit. Now it's about how we expand and go to the next level from where we are now. We've got to market, we've got the first couple of games that work and have proven themselves, but there's an awful lot more we can do to grow in this space.
How do the unit economics work?
Michael: I really want to talk about those expansion plans in a second, but I just want to zoom in on one thing on this slide, which is that 7 per cent GGR number. Can you maybe talk a bit more in depth about what that actually means? If someone loses $100 playing this game, how does that flow down through the ecosystem to Bitblox?
Brandt: So for anyone new to gambling, GGR is gross gambling revenue. It is basically what the operator makes after paying out whatever they need to pay out. So if it was a sports betting game, I take X amount of dollars in bets in and I pay amount Y out, and the difference between X and Y is my GGR. So in the case of our game, what we're saying is, if there's $100 worth of bets, basically we're delivering the operator $7 worth of profit. So for every $100 worth of bets, they're paying out $93 and keeping $7, and then we at Bitblox, as the supplier, get a percentage of that $7. That's how the commercials work.
Michael: So do you charge any other fees to the operators, or is it just that cut of GGR?
Brandt: Not yet. But as we grow, there is the possibility for setup fees and monthly fees, depending on the operator and their size and things like that. But when I talked before about potentially the new arrangement where we could offer certain operators guaranteed returns, that will also provide a new revenue stream for us. And then some of the things we have planned around boosting demand also provide another separate source of revenue for us.
What are the expansion plans?
Michael: Understood. Let's talk about those expansion plans that you mentioned. What's next for Bitblox, and how are you going to get to that next leg of growth?
Brandt: So I think the first two on this slide are the most important. This is about distribution. We obviously need to maximise our current deals and expand our distribution into more operators and more aggregators. And as I said, we've got a very proven team in relation to being able to execute integrations very quickly, which not a lot of suppliers can actually do. And that goes to things like, and I come back to the relationship side of things, while you might have a big aggregator with lots of operators underneath them, and those operators turn your content on, that's just one part of the process. The next part is making sure that you have prominence of your game on their website, so the players see you and you're not hidden at the back of the lobby somewhere. And there are people in all of those online casinos that manage and run that, and so there are lots of different things you can do, both in relation to discounts on revenue share, promotional tools like free bets, and tournaments. So a lot of what we're trying to do here in this next stage for us is basically to bring some more resources in to execute on those two points. They're the two main ones. I would say, for now, it is a distribution game.
Michael: Understood. So to date, you've been largely self-funded, with you and the team and maybe a small group of investors, but now you're going out and raising a million dollars for that next leg. Would it be fair to say a lot of that is actually going into that sales function?
Brandt: I'd say a decent amount of it. It's split basically across that distribution function, and then we also need to bring in some additional resources around game tech, and then we also need some production and content partnerships as well. That last bit, I would say, is also as important. You cannot, in this industry, just create one or two games, even if they're really good games, and rest on your laurels. You need to be putting out new content at a very regular interval, and we have an aim of getting to the point where we can produce or release a new game every month. And on that side of things, we've already got quite a suite of new ideas in R&D. And in saying that, one thing I didn't cover before, one of the beauties of our up or down game is that the up or down engine also powers Three in a Row. We've just turned it into an accumulator. So what I would say there is the reskinability, if that's a word, of our engine is very powerful. We can make things look very different to Up or Down Turbo, even though they're the same engine. Whereas reskinning a slot game is much more difficult. You can put different artwork on and make it a different theme, from Egypt to China or whatever, but fundamentally it looks the same. We can make things look very different, even though they're the same.
And then the point about boosting demand and micro apps, there's a whole array of things we're thinking about, where you can automate chatbots that are putting out information on social media. Have you seen Bitcoin's up $1,000 today? Go here and have a look at this free game and play it. And we can create tournaments where people play for free, and then send them off to operators where they play for real money. And that could be a very powerful revenue source for us as well in the future. So this is about just adding to the very good set of resources that we've already got, so that we can push it to the next level of expansion and see where we can get to, because we're not aiming to build a team of 100 people here tomorrow. But I think we have a real opportunity here, from where we're sitting, to expand in a big way in the next 12 months.
Which geographies is Bitblox targeting?
Michael: We've got a distribution question that has come through from Mitch, who has asked, are there any particular geographies that Bitblox is targeting for expansion, and if so, why those?
Brandt: I think it's a good question, and I do get asked about locations all the time. At the moment, for the operators that we're on, and that's not a spectrum of the entire world, we have seen very strong traction in Asia, which is maybe not unexpected, because culturally out there they are looking for games that they can win on, not necessarily slots and things like that. We've had some very good traction in Brazil as well, where slots are not as popular in that Latin American market as other places. And we haven't gone live yet, but we've got three really strong commercial deals in Africa that we're closing at the moment as well. And crypto in Africa has gone crazy in terms of interest. So I think those sorts of jurisdictions, and I know they're big to start with, would be logical. But then over time, and at the moment we can't really go into the UK or the US, there's potentially a really strong opportunity in Australia, given that Australia bans online casinos, but it's because they're banning games of chance. Because we are a skill-based game, we may have an opportunity to actually get into the Australian market, which would be a huge thing for us when you look at the limited competition that's in that domestic market. So hopefully that answers that question.
Michael: Yeah, I think it does. And we had a pretty related question submitted. Maybe you don't have anything to add, but just in case you do. Which Southeast Asian markets does Bitblox see as more open to crypto-enabled gaming, and how is it positioning to navigate local payment norms and compliance?
Brandt: That's a very complicated one, and it probably gets down to many jurisdictions. I'm probably not an expert particularly on the local payment norms. I've had someone raise the blue peso issue in Argentina with me before. It is definitely a responsibility of the operator, in terms of what currency operators are letting players use. We're always trying to fit in with what they're doing and what someone is offering. So I think we try to accommodate where we can. As you can see, I think on that prior slide, we already support more than 50 currencies as it stands at the moment. Look, it's very hard to predict where crypto is going to go, from both a regulatory and other front. What we're trying to sit on here is back to the fundamental, which is that this is about engaging with crypto without having to touch it. Nobody's buying Bitcoin or anything like that. It's just letting people engage with it in a simple manner.
Where does this sit from a licensing and compliance point of view?
Michael: And then the last part of that question was around compliance, and there was also another question in here from Simon. From a legal, licensing and compliance point of view, does this sit under sports betting, casino, or FX?
Brandt: Definitely not FX. Like most things, you could get a different answer depending on who you ask, but it definitely falls under gambling. And as I said, there are only certain jurisdictions that might have distinctions between how they regulate sports betting, casino, or otherwise. But we've already seen this challenge where we've had operators that have actually put us in their sports betting lobby as well as their casino lobby. It's pretty hard for me to sit here and say we're definitively one or the other. I think we can fit both boxes, depending on which one an operator needs.
Michael: Understood. And you've got a gaming licence though, as a company, Bitblox does. And then you have to also just make sure that your customers are offering that product in a jurisdiction where they're allowed to offer it, right?
Brandt: Yeah. We have a list of restricted jurisdictions that every operator has to stick to. Like any supplier, all suppliers have restricted jurisdictions, depending on where they're sitting.
Does the operator retain ownership of the customer and the data?
Michael: We've got a question here from Christopher, who said, does the operator retain complete ownership of the customer, including all the data?
Brandt: Yes. We don't have any visibility of the customers on our side.
Is the plan to license to casinos or run your own venue?
Michael: Yeah, makes sense. I think we've answered this one, but just to make it super clear, Mark has asked, is the plan to license to casinos like Stake.com, or run your own venue?
Brandt: No, we're very much focused on being a pure B2B company. We're not intending to create our own B2C brand on that front. We don't want to compete with our customers on that side. We're very happy to stay as a B2B business. I think where I touched on where we might do slight B2C stuff is when I talked about the creation of those free-to-play tournaments and things like that. So that is technically B2C, but it's not us running a real money website, basically.
Can leveraged markets push the spot price in times of low liquidity?
Michael: Yeah, that makes sense. We've got a few more questions in here, and if there are any more questions from the audience, please pop them in the question box. Mark has also asked, can leveraged markets push the spot price in times of low liquidity? This is a common market making strategy. So I guess this is more to the point of just making sure things don't get out of whack and people aren't beating the game in times of low liquidity.
Brandt: That is exactly what I was alluding to before, when I was talking about conditions needing to be very much a certain way. And one of the things we're looking at, on that very point, and I'm glad that was raised, is, we don't have it yet, but we will at a point introduce dynamic bet maximums. A bit like the difference between betting on the Premier League or betting on the Vanarama National League South, and for those that are not in Britain, I apologise for that reference. So at times where there's lots of activity in Bitcoin, we can allow our bet maximums to be higher, but at times where it's very quiet, and there may be an opportunity for someone to look at that, we can lower the bet maximum. So that's one of the innovations that we're actually going to be putting out soon. But that's exactly the sort of scenario I was talking about before, when I mentioned people attempting to manipulate.
Is the rise of prediction markets helpful for Bitblox?
Michael: That makes sense. One question I was actually thinking about when I was reading about Polymarket and Kalshi, the prediction market platforms, which are the two big ones. There are a lot of markets actually popping up on there around crypto pricing, so there's already this emergent behaviour around people wanting to predict where these crypto prices go. Does that come up in your sales conversations? Is that helpful for momentum, the fact that this is being validated elsewhere?
Brandt: There is a growing buzz in the market that prediction markets will be the next big thing in the gambling world, and I would say that we are very well positioned to capitalise on that, because we are already there, we are already doing it, and we've already had success on that side of it. So I'd be very happy if that proves to be correct. I really do think it's a huge opportunity.
Who handles the Bitblox integrations, and how quick is the process?
Michael: Oscar has asked, who handles the Bitblox integrations, and how quick is the process?
Brandt: It's one of two ways. The way integrations work, we call them either a direct integration or a reverse integration. The reverse just means my team does the lion's share of the work. And so for aggregators, where we're integrating to a platform that gives us access to many operators, we tend to do a reverse integration. Where we're doing a deal with a single operator, we tend to do a direct integration, where their team uses our documentation to do it. But this is all based around APIs, and while I'm not, my team are basically API experts.
Do you see a convergence of crypto, iGaming, prediction and traditional markets?
Michael: The last question we've got through is from Mark. Do you see a convergence of crypto, iGaming, prediction, CFD and traditional markets? It feels like it's all going in one direction, and no single venue has realised it and brought it all together.
Brandt: I think that's a very prescient question. I think he's right. I don't know exactly how quickly it will happen, and I think this comes down to how quickly prediction crashes into sports betting and casino stuff. Some sort of evangelist of this would say we're going to come to a time where there's a market on everything. Literally, you want to get something priced up, no matter how crazy it is, you'll be able to do it. So I do see, potentially, financial markets and gambling markets coming closer and closer together. I think at the moment, though, you've got very different regulatory regimes across both, and I can't really imagine regulators ceding sovereignty, if that's the right word, so I think it might be regulatory stuff that makes that more difficult. But logically, there should be a one-stop shop for doing all of this stuff.
Michael: I think we'll leave it there. Brandt, thanks so much for your time and for telling us about Bitblox today. I found it really interesting, and I think we made good time getting through all those questions. I will just say that Bitblox is currently going through the fundraising process, and I noticed a lot of investors on the call today. So if those people are interested in learning a bit more, feel free to contact me. My email and number are on the screen there, and I'll pass you on to Brandt to discuss further. Yeah, we'll leave it there. Thank you, Brandt.
Brandt: Excellent. Thanks for the opportunity.